Comments on: When the “Python Vs PHP” war matters http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/ my very own personal corner Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:26:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Julian http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/comment-page-1/#comment-1092 Julian Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:56:08 +0000 http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/#comment-1092 In design, Python is better than php. but when you program for the web... what can I say... PHP is realy easy to learn, realy fast, realy powerFull, and every time whith a better design and becaming a general purpose language... Mean while I program for the web ... even console scripts I will continue loving PHP. Thanks In design, Python is better than php. but when you program for the web… what can I say… PHP is realy easy to learn, realy fast, realy powerFull, and every time whith a better design and becaming a general purpose language… Mean while I program for the web … even console scripts I will continue loving PHP. Thanks

]]> By: Giuliani Vito, Ivan http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/comment-page-1/#comment-747 Giuliani Vito, Ivan Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:01:11 +0000 http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/#comment-747 @pcdinh, @oscar: both of you missed an important point of the post that I'll repeat here: <blockquote>Note that I’m <strong>not</strong> talk­ing about why a lan­guage is better than the other, because this would move us in another direc­tion, but why <strong>we</strong> chosen Python as our main pro­gram­ming lan­guage (even if this uncon­sciously lead us to say why, <strong>for us</strong>, Python is better than PHP, but that's another story)</blockquote> I agree that PHP was born for web development and for many use cases is the perfect choice. What I wanted to say with this post is that Python has, <strong>for us</strong>, worked rather better than PHP from our enterprise point of view, that could be quite different from other scenarios. @pcdinh, @oscar: both of you missed an important point of the post that I’ll repeat here:

Note that I’m not talk­ing about why a lan­guage is better than the other, because this would move us in another direc­tion, but why we chosen Python as our main pro­gram­ming lan­guage (even if this uncon­sciously lead us to say why, for us, Python is better than PHP, but that’s another story)

I agree that PHP was born for web development and for many use cases is the perfect choice. What I wanted to say with this post is that Python has, for us, worked rather better than PHP from our enterprise point of view, that could be quite different from other scenarios.

]]> By: oscar http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/comment-page-1/#comment-745 oscar Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:32:41 +0000 http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/#comment-745 I do respect your opinion, but it does not say too much to me. Your election seem based on your abilities not the language, so, waht kind of application you are talking about. Because a large application does not means a complex application, it seems to me your choice is based in an application ready with templates and wizards. What I can say is ... I really hate PHP syntax, and for the rest of the matter, I am sure it is the best option for a proffesional developer. I do respect your opinion, but it does not say too much to me. Your election seem based on your abilities not the language, so, waht kind of application you are talking about. Because a large application does not means a complex application, it seems to me your choice is based in an application ready with templates and wizards.
What I can say is … I really hate PHP syntax, and for the rest of the matter, I am sure it is the best option for a proffesional developer.

]]> By: pcdinh http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/comment-page-1/#comment-739 pcdinh Sat, 06 Dec 2008 19:35:22 +0000 http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/#comment-739 This article is fun to read. But the author hides a truth: PHP is designed for web and Python is not. When you said: "If I’d build an application in PHP, I’d spend about 1/3 of the time more if I’d develop the same application in Python" I think it is your problem: your PHP skill instead of PHP or Python matter. I have developed web application PHP in 6 years and Python for 7 months. I find that the rich of PHP functions, classes that support web development is much more superior than in Python. I still find that django lacks of a lot features that Zend, SolarPHP and Symfony have. This article is fun to read. But the author hides a truth: PHP is designed for web and Python is not.

When you said: “If I’d build an application in PHP, I’d spend about 1/3 of the time more if I’d develop the same application in Python” I think it is your problem: your PHP skill instead of PHP or Python matter.

I have developed web application PHP in 6 years and Python for 7 months. I find that the rich of PHP functions, classes that support web development is much more superior than in Python.

I still find that django lacks of a lot features that Zend, SolarPHP and Symfony have.

]]> By: Giuliani Vito, Ivan http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/comment-page-1/#comment-218 Giuliani Vito, Ivan Fri, 15 Aug 2008 07:45:46 +0000 http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/#comment-218 Gosh, you're right. I know what functional languages are (I've done something in Haskell too), I just don't know what I had in mind at that time. Anyway, fixed, thanks. Gosh, you’re right. I know what functional languages are (I’ve done something in Haskell too), I just don’t know what I had in mind at that time. Anyway, fixed, thanks.

]]> By: seb http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/comment-page-1/#comment-217 seb Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:04:39 +0000 http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/#comment-217 I don't mean to nitpick, but this sentence made me cringe: <blockquote>PHP is born as functional programming language [...]</blockquote> Ehm, no. No, it isn't. I guess you mean that PHP's fundamental abstraction and unit of modularity is not the <em>object</em>, but the <em>function</em>. The term you are looking for might be <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_programming" rel="nofollow">procedural programming</a>. But PHP is a long way from <a href="http://www.haskell.org/" rel="nofollow">real</a> <a href="http://caml.inria.fr/" rel="nofollow">functional</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheme_(programming_language)" rel="nofollow">languages</a>, both in features and mindset. I don’t mean to nitpick, but this sentence made me cringe:

PHP is born as functional programming language […]

Ehm, no. No, it isn’t.

I guess you mean that PHP’s fundamental abstraction and unit of modularity is not the object, but the function. The term you are looking for might be procedural programming.

But PHP is a long way from real functional languages, both in features and mindset.

]]> By: john http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/comment-page-1/#comment-206 john Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:13:42 +0000 http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/#comment-206 <blockquote>Python has Django, CherryPy, Pylons, and so on. But none of them [...] goes near to the completeness and functionality of django.</blockquote> LMAO.

Python has Django, CherryPy, Pylons, and so on. But none of them […] goes near to the completeness and functionality of django.

LMAO.

]]> By: Giuliani Vito, Ivan http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/comment-page-1/#comment-150 Giuliani Vito, Ivan Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:48:12 +0000 http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/#comment-150 Actually you can do with Python the same things you do with PHP. In addition you can use python scripts as standalone executables (even if PHP has a command line intepreter, it's not very suitable for this purpose) and this is a plus that is very useful when you have to do some pre/post processing stuff (think at the GIS stuff you mentioned). If you want additional modules, there are a lot of them around the web, just like pecl/pear (but assuming you're in a shared hosting environment, python modules are not really an issue as could be pear for php). Definitely I'm not thinking that PHP is useless, for simple purposes and lower-budget projects it's still a must due to the fact that php hosting costs a lot less than python hosting, and because setting up a classic php-powered server is a straightforward procedure (setting up apache + mod_wsgi + python could be a pain in the ass sometimes), but I'm still loving python more as it's saving me a lot of time in developing the same kind of applications I done until one year and half ago. Actually you can do with Python the same things you do with PHP. In addition you can use python scripts as standalone executables (even if PHP has a command line intepreter, it’s not very suitable for this purpose) and this is a plus that is very useful when you have to do some pre/post processing stuff (think at the GIS stuff you mentioned).

If you want additional modules, there are a lot of them around the web, just like pecl/pear (but assuming you’re in a shared hosting environment, python modules are not really an issue as could be pear for php).

Definitely I’m not thinking that PHP is useless, for simple purposes and lower-budget projects it’s still a must due to the fact that php hosting costs a lot less than python hosting, and because setting up a classic php-powered server is a straightforward procedure (setting up apache + mod_wsgi + python could be a pain in the ass sometimes), but I’m still loving python more as it’s saving me a lot of time in developing the same kind of applications I done until one year and half ago.

]]> By: leo http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/comment-page-1/#comment-148 leo Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:17:28 +0000 http://zeta-puppis.com/2008/02/21/when-the-python-vs-php-war-matters/#comment-148 Very interesting. I've been learning Python for two days. We currently develop in PHP and I have been thinking about Ruby. I'm finding it difficult to find <i>any</i> reason to go with Ruby. The positives always seem to originate from Ruby developers who have never used another language. The negatives mostly come from PHP developers who have tried Ruby, but this may be due to OO blindness. Personally, I think PHP is a bit clunky. Historically I have a lot of experience with a proprietary language, Magik, (used for GIS applications) that is very similar to Smalltalk, hence my interest in Ruby and Python. Also I remember (about 15 years ago) a colleague setting out to learn Python. In your experience, is Python as versatile as PHP? There doesn't seem to be anything I can't do with PHP and I wouldn't want to go with another language only to have to drop back into PHP for certain tasks. Very interesting. I’ve been learning Python for two days.

We currently develop in PHP and I have been thinking about Ruby. I’m finding it difficult to find any reason to go with Ruby. The positives always seem to originate from Ruby developers who have never used another language. The negatives mostly come from PHP developers who have tried Ruby, but this may be due to OO blindness.

Personally, I think PHP is a bit clunky. Historically I have a lot of experience with a proprietary language, Magik, (used for GIS applications) that is very similar to Smalltalk, hence my interest in Ruby and Python. Also I remember (about 15 years ago) a colleague setting out to learn Python.

In your experience, is Python as versatile as PHP? There doesn’t seem to be anything I can’t do with PHP and I wouldn’t want to go with another language only to have to drop back into PHP for certain tasks.

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